Zero Emissions: From Vision to Reality with the Global Network for Zero

In this enlightening episode of the Sustainability Podcast, host Jim Frazer engages in a deep dive with Mahesh Ramanujam and Vincent Chiusano from the Global Network for Zero. The conversation explores their unique journeys into the sustainability sector, the evolution of the US Green Building Council, and the critical importance of zero emissions.

Mahesh and Vincent share their insights on the challenges and strategies for achieving net zero emissions, emphasizing the importance of incremental progress, education, and the global-local implementation dichotomy. They discuss the pivotal role of the Global Network for Zero in harmonizing standards, providing guidance, and celebrating successes across diverse regions and industries.

Tune in to learn how businesses, communities, and individuals can contribute to a sustainable future and the steps needed to transform the vision of zero emissions into a global reality. Don't miss this episode packed with inspiration, practical advice, and a call to action for a sustainable world.

Subscribe to our podcast for more episodes that bring you closer to the forefront of sustainability and energy transition.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you like to be a guest on our growing podcast?

If you have an intriguing, thought provoking topic you'd like to discuss on our podcast, please contact our host Jim Frazer

View all the episodes here: https://thesustainabilitypodcast.buzzsprout.com

Transcript

SPEAKERS

Vincent Chiusano, Mahesh Ramanujam, Jim Frazer

Jim Frazer  00:00

Welcome again to another episode of the sustainability podcast where we dive deep into the world of sustainability and energy transition, exploring innovations and challenges that are shaping our future. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by two executives from the global network for zero. Mahesh Ramanujam who's the CEO, and Vincent Chiusano. Welcome, gentlemen. How are you today?

Vincent Chiusano  00:26

Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Great.

Mahesh Ramanujam   00:28

Thank you so much for having us. Great

Jim Frazer  00:30

to have you. So in this world of net zero, there's many, many conflicting perspectives. Can you tell us about yourselves and how you came to this industry, just so we can set a stable foundation for the rest of our conversation today?

Mahesh Ramanujam  00:51

Absolutely. Many go for it.

Vincent Chiusano  00:53

Sure. I completely by accident, I, I went to school, I was going to be a movie star. I went to school for theater, and was out in California for a while, then came back to take a break and got a job in a call center. And then ended up graduating up roles and call centers. Or I was managing, you know, different departments went from different banks to banks moved around a lot. And then came here, I came to Northern Virginia, in like 2005, I parents were ill, I had to take a break from work. So I was caring for ILL parents, and US Green Building Council was looking for somebody to come in and help with their customer service. So I applied there just to have something to do, it was only supposed to be six months. And ended up being 11 years. So I went there. And I got involved in it, you know, build customer service, account management, technical customer service, market development. And in that 10 year, I met Mahesh he came a couple of years later, he was the CEO and he and I bonded and had, you know, like visions. So we've been pretty much together ever since. But it was truly I mean, I fell into this world, truly by accident. And, you know, over time, you know, my passion and my drives have really, really gotten committed to it. But it was purely by accident that I that I that I got to where I am today.

Jim Frazer  02:24

Go ahead Mahesh

Mahesh Ramanujam  02:25

Yeah, you know, you know, it's always fun to be with Winnie on anything. So you know, it's just wonderful, wonderful to hear his story. So my background is in I was born in southern part of India. And I came to the US to actually make a living right and, and my journey started as a technologist because I My background is in computer science. So like most of the people from India, they come to America to become a software programmer, I started my journey like that. But then very quickly, I spent a good amount of time driving business transformation projects at IBM. And then every Julie had my own consulting firm. Through that I came to US Green Building Council to support them a little bit like Winnie on an accidental journey to actually start supporting them on a technology platform, then eventually became a CFO and then see what to succeed our wonderful founder, Richard reasi. And, you know, I give 15 years, collectively to the organizations, the US Green Building Council that I've most recently served, to really focus on sustainability. Why because growing up, I grew up in poverty, extreme poverty. And that's not unique to me, many of the people were the humble beginning of this institution. But I came to know very firsthand three things that a scorching sun is not going to really be something that everybody will accept, because I come from the place which is very next to the very close to the equator. So I faced extreme amount of heat. And the most important part is that there is nine months that is what are not available in those particular region. Second is that is my dream became possible because my father made extraordinary sacrifices as a blue collar worker making 50 bucks a month, and really paying for my me and my brother, to really make a living. And then the third part is really understand that 3040 years ago, a lot of the luxuries that we had, we have today or we had today did not exist. So you really do invest in education, invest in paying it forward, invest in things that you really know that other people will benefit from, as being my foundation. So when you think about sustainability, for me, it's just not environmental sustainability, financial system and emotional sustainability, social sustainability, all of which I've been able to wonderfully receive from my parents, and then be able to get to the place I'm in today. So that made it naturally a very resonating factor for me to focus on US Green Building Council because me and Vinny collectively did a lot of good things on behalf with the community and most importantly, to transform the community. So that's my journey.

Jim Frazer  04:59

That's great. Now But before we get into to net zero, I and I'm sure our listeners will be interested in the development of the Green Building Council over that long, relatively long period of time. I know Vinnie got there first, and then mahash you join you soon relatively soon after, and the both of you were there for quite a while.  can you can you discuss how the Green Building Council evolved over your time there?

Mahesh Ramanujam  05:32

Yes. And you know, the most important part to understand is that the US Green Building Council, a fabulous environmental nonprofit in the world, which was advocating for better green buildings around the world, was established in 1993. So it started as a, like a bank, a policymaking institution. But then very quickly, it actually created this fabulous tool called LEED, which stands for Leadership in Energy and raw metal design. The way we have talked about LEED is that the LEED is like the nutrition label on all the things that you buy at the grocery store. So instead of putting it on the grocery, we put it on a building so that you know what, how much energy it takes, how much water it takes, how much the indoor air quality, how was that met? What are the types of materials use and whatnot. So it kind of it's a nutrition label. And some people, some people leave as a checklist. For some people lead is a design tool for some people. LEED is a policy tool, it has become so many things over a period of time. But the foundational thing is that that's the tool that the organization was able to establish. And that created this massive transformation of really transforming how buildings are ever constructed, and operated forever. And that's the journey of the US Green Building Council. Vinnie, do you want to add something there? Or?

Vincent Chiusano  06:44

Yeah, I mean, it was very interesting, because it at some point, early 2000s, that blew up and expanded and, you know, had a lot of volume and traffic coming into it. Part of the reasons why I was brought in was to help manage the customer service overflow that had built up over time, you know, due to the popularity and demand and no, and it has been a very interesting journey, especially from where it was when I started to when Mahesh came in and took it in a variety of different directions. From a sustainability perspective, but yeah, I mean, you see, you know, it's gone through so many iterations through the years, you know, version two, version three, version four, and version five, always trying to do better and make a better product, you know, for people and buildings that are that are out there. And we always talked about, you know, the difference between a LEED building and a non LEED building and what goes into all of that. But yeah, it's been a very interesting evolution over the years. And when Mahesh joined us GBC, it really went into into so many, you know, great directions and encompassed a lot of things, not just in a building, but outside the building and communities and cities and things like that. Yeah, just

Mahesh Ramanujam  08:07

three simple things. First, you talked about growth. The first and foremost is that lead was all the lead was a global tool. It was predominantly deployed in the US. So we truly made it a global tool. So when we say global tool, what does it mean? That vision of green buildings is global, but the implementation of it is local. So being able to localize it, customize it, and meet people where they are. That's the first point. The second point was about really growing lead from 6.5 billion square feet, in 30 countries to 200 countries and territories. And to about 28 point 5 billion square feet 210,000 projects, starting from a 500 square feet, small space two all the way up to a skyscraper building. That was the second. The third one was to create a $2 trillion market for green buildings through the stool that subsequently led to our deployment of grass, the global real estate sustainability benchmark that basically when we left, it was at about $9 trillion of assets under management all contributing towards participating in an ESG program that was promoted progress, particularly when I acquired grasp. We were when we were at US Green Building Council people asked me guess what, ESG? What? And why are you buying so much? Why are you buying our web portal, and that became a mainstream conversation in less than six to seven years. So I these are some of the data points and about 276 countries at 276 CDs in in the US and around the US basically, were able to really take lead not only at the building level, but at the city and a community level. So that's kind of an interesting way of selling the growth story and that I'm always excited about Wow,

Jim Frazer  09:45

Can you describe the current ecosystem of buildings, Net Zero certification? What is your global network for zero? what inspired you to do this? What did you find in the market that that encouraged you and motivated and facilitated your way on this current path?

Mahesh Ramanujam  10:17

Many you want to add something here before I go,

Vincent Chiusano  10:21

No, go ahead and I'll trail you go ahead, feel free

Mahesh Ramanujam  10:25

to stop me. Because I am so much into it. So I I don't know where to stop. So forgive me for that. The most important thing, when we think about our ecosystem, let me just pare it down into two parts, right? When we were in the US Green Building Council, what was our ecosystem, architects, engineers, construction leaders, product manufacturers, data centers, retail leaders, governments, nonprofits, policymakers, you pretty much name it because real estate, as an industry connects all other industries, at least before COVID. That's the place everybody had a place, right. And then when you let the place the so called place that is called an office, and then when you went back to your home, you went to a place so you technically went from a place to a place. So you know, you know, long story short, you the real estate industry is the industry of industries, I jokingly say it right. So what happened was it created enormous power to the US Green Building Council because we flew either influencing so many people, either directly or indirectly, either on the consumer side, or on the demand side or on the, or on the basically the advocacy experience. And most importantly, so to name it, that's kind of the ecosystem that we were addressing. Now, when you step out of the US Green Building framework, the building framework, the real estate framework, then you're not talking about talking about the business leaders, you're not talking about industries, you're not talking about cities, communities, you're not talking about, you know, products, you're talking about a variety of things that that could even have, you know, geopolitical and national ramifications. So when you look at that construct, and when you start thinking about the constituents, I put them into big categories, the businesses and the industries, and the stakeholders that they serve, or they take into consideration. So it's basically a B to B to C type of playing that God created in this thing. So and because the agenda is so perverse, the topic of sustainability is farmers, who would you exclude from it, so either somebody was either consuming it, or somebody was delivering it. So ultimately, sustainability is for all, and that's the journey. So it's pretty much the universe, it looks a little bit superfluous to say that, but it's a broad ecosystem. And that's why in US Green Building, also, we asked when this uses, we always used to say, everyone in a green building within a generation, then I would stop and say everyone means everyone, that someone but everyone. So that's kind of the ecosystem?

Jim Frazer  12:55

Sure, let me ask a bit of a very focused question. You know, I see both, both of you were with the Green Building Council during COVID. And in the first year, you know, how did clearly sustainability is part of the COVID response, but what was it like at the Green Building Council during those first days, weeks and months? 

Mahesh Ramanujam  13:26

again, many please chime in. The most important part is, I still remember, one week exactly before President Trump shut down the United States. I asked our team to go remote. And a lot of people tried to push back on me for that I am not, I'm not a I'm not a psychic. So please don't get me wrong. But I just felt it so compelling that I felt like for some reason, I felt like this is going to go for a long time. And since majority of my employees were women, who are taking care of their own children, they were in their family management role, I thought that practically the schools closed. And if the mothers had to really stay home, which is typically always happen, the mother or father, then they needed to be given that opportunity to stay home or work from home. If it is for even for few weeks. At that time. In my mind, it was just few weeks, but even that time, few weeks is a long time. So when I made that call, and then many people critique me saying you're being overly sensitive, you're being overly dramatic, but I took the call and then within a week, President Trump said, locked down. When the Lord known happened, it brought brought in stark contrast three things one, that thing that they've been talking about the word to people on the wall, which is that green buildings, create a greater environment greater, safer, cleaner, healthier environment came into sharp focus. Now, is that true or false? At that time, that became a very valid question. So all the things that we've been selling, it could all blow up on our face if it didn't work. That's possible. The second point is that we will always connected green buildings with the economy because we believe that healthy people and healthy places equals unhealthy economy. Now, is that true? What happened? The real estate sector imploded, the space has imploded because of the lockdown. And that created a globe down global lockdown. And that created an economic impact. Right? That's the second thing that happened. The third thing is that when will this be over? And in the meantime, what do you do to help the market, that thing that you try to serve, has now moved away from you, the buildings, the hospitals, the centers, all these places, and no focus on survival, protection, and may being the place to be safe for the people, while people all of these people are shifted to their households. And we are the transformation of a normal traditional home to a green home, as being a massive challenge came into sharp focus. So those were the three things going on in our mind, and most importantly, our survival, our existence came into a great question. But enormously, we also knew that we had the tools, and we had the responsibility and accountability to help people. So this was what was happening. Definitely between March and May. And then I had enormous pressure for processing mesh, can you give me some certification that proves that this place is safe? Can you please move? And allow me to do that? So it was very bizarre that I was getting to see enormous market demand. But my moral my ethics and the code of conduct and values of automation could say, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're and we'll do that. Because that will be not greenwashing, that will be a blatant lie. Particularly when I did know that what the hell is getting us you know, it was was very, very surreal. really go for it.

Vincent Chiusano  16:50

And it's funny, because and the other thing that was born out of that is that the the the whole sustainability building focus expanded beyond just, you know, the core and shell the building itself, it started getting into, okay, clean air, right? How important is the air we breathe in a building outside of a building? The emotional state of an employee? That is, is is you know, cooped up in their house working from home sequestered? How are their How's their well being in the office space, when they're at work? You know, how do they value their job, the things that they do, so you brought in a lot of other factors into into the word sustainability, there's so many terms that are out there, but it but it just expanded the universe a little bit, going through that whole pandemic, to look at the mental and physical health of people and how, where they work and what they do impacts all of those things. So it kind of, you know, bled into the ESG you know, trend that soon followed.

Jim Frazer  17:54

that's fascinating. And that really was my question,-bwhat was the thought process at the US GBC, about giving an approval to a building to be to be safe during during COVID. So clearly, the US GBC and your both of your histories is about sustainability in a building and then later outside the building. What does that have to do with netzero?

Mahesh Ramanujam  18:23

You know, it's a great question. You know, one of the biggest things that we faced while at the US Green Building Council was when you look at a building, there are two types of buildings buildings that were Branly being constructed brand new from scratch, right? We'll call it a greenfield project, a brand new construction, then you look at all these buildings that is around us, right? And the the homes and the residential spaces, everything worked out and it's already existing around us. So the hardest thing within the US Green Building Council and even today, beyond the heels, Green Building Council is transforming existing buildings, because these buildings have different starting points, these buildings have different technologies, these buildings cannot just be reoriented or you cannot just ship them in a different direction. Because sustainability cannot be an afterthought sustainability should be if you do it, right, you have to do it from the beginning. You have to do it consistently. And you have to do it eventually. So this was always a challenge that was given to us at US Green Building Council that how do you transform the existing buildings, particularly when they constitute 97% of the building stock that's out there in the world today, and it became even more challenging. Now, having said that, internally, what we looked at constantly was how do we help these, these these this large building sector that is emitting significant amount of emissions, to really take action, so that we not only reduce the emissions for the sector, but we also model a good standard, a good example for the rest of the industries to follow but in the real estate industry could lead that means that many other people could naturally follow suit. But the reality was, it was very, very, very hard. Then it became very clear post COVID Give COVID could shake us up so much, in a very body call, in a simplistic way by a delicate COVID. At least we knew what hit us. We knew that where it came from. And we were able to actually provide a solution, or at least think about a solution and then come up with this vaccine and actually help a lot of people come out of that, that difficult phase, climate change is not going to hit us with the same type of impact, it is going to happen in different places like the temperature in China is going to increase to a crazy number more than 50 degrees Celsius, while Minnesota could go sub zero, and really freezes to Antarctica temperature. So there is no one formula one size, one direction, okay? It is going to be a decentralized hit, for which many people around the world may not be ready. And the solutions itself could not be easily deploy, at least what we were able to during during COVID. That created a very interesting challenge in our mind to think about a topic that we've been thinking about for a long time, how do we zero out the emissions, so that we know that at least one metric called the emissions being reduced to zero could be hit, then on top of it, obviously, you can do so many other things right? You can, you can create energy independence, you can create water independence, you can create improve air quality, you can come back and create better healthy materials, you can improve resilience, you can improve equity, all these wonderful things, these multi dimensional goals and metrics that we have aspirational goals that we can get there. But what if we don't hit the basic foundational metric called zero, which has to be the stepping stone. And if we don't get there, within time, which is built before the Paris Climate Agreement target of 2050, then there is nothing more to discuss. So that made us think very hard and said, Okay, it's time now to focus on one thing, and really push the market to do it really well. And that number, and that metric. And that goal has to be about zero emissions and creating a zero emissions wall to create a positive impact on people planet and profit. We can make that happen if you can prove that that's going to happen. And if you even don't achieve this to happen, then how good it is for us to to hit all other metrics. So it brought us into sharp focus. The idea is to create a zero emissions economy. And that's how global network for zero was born. That's why it's global network for zero the network is it bring all like minded ecosystem players to think about zero emissions so that we can solve this global crisis?

Jim Frazer  22:34

So what initiatives is your global network for zero taking? Is it a standards organization? Is it certification? Is it some hybrid of that? Can you share that with our audience?

Mahesh Ramanujam  22:45

Yes, yes, yes. Many you want to give it a try?

Vincent Chiusano  22:47

No, go ahead. No.

Mahesh Ramanujam  22:50

I feel free because I love to talk about this topic. So the foundation is that the biggest challenge with all the sustainability organizations is that they've done phenomenal good work, they have done a great job of raising awareness, raising adoption. But what we need right now is acceleration. And one of the hardest battles that I fought while at the US Green Building Council was harmonizing the standards because there are myriads of standards. Interestingly, in 1993, when US Green Building Council was fine, maybe one or two systems came into focus, then when I left the US Green Building goals, and we had almost more than 140, standards, guidelines, best practices, metrics and whatnot. Now, I'm pretty sure we got it around like 250. Right, since since I left us GBC in the last two years. So it's technically a word salad out there, right? It's just it's a complicated landscape. So and the fundamental issue was, instead of converging on a stronger outcome, like zero, these were all about strategies, these are all about different landing. So I could take your own system and make a little bit of peek and said, instead of being 20%, or 30%, it looks like a different system, although fundamentally, it's the same system. But because of these nuances we keep making, and there's some kind of passion for grading, being a winner of a rating system or a product or a best practice, people keep making these tweaks and make this very untenable for a consumer for a project to pursue. Because you suddenly think that why am I doing this versus that, then you spend enough time thinking about why I should do this versus that instead doing it and really measuring the outcome. So this, this became a kind of a religion, and what really just kept coming, but we lost focus that we want to see God. And we want to be the good humans in the society that makes on a lighter note. So we became clear in the beginning of global network a zero let's not create another standard guideline protocols, whatnot. Let's look at what's being widely used out there. In our case, it's the greenhouse gas protocol and tried to get behind it. And to getting beyond that means doing three things, educating the people on what it is doing a thorough under very rigorous implementation, because implementation matters. And through implementation, we can also drive acceleration. So hence we want to focus on implementation. And last but not the least, the most important thing, the celebration, the recognition aspect of it, because I have always had, while at the US Green Building Council building a bad building is a sin. But not talking about a good building is a cardinal sin. Right? So celebrations are needed, success stories are needed. In fact, what we're doing right now you have the opportunity that you're giving us through this podcast is a great way for us to tell that story, right to tell the story to tell the why and most importantly, demonstrate progress, right. And that's very, very important. So we said he can implement, celebrate. And really, to do that, get behind a certification methodology, use the certification as a way to inspire people to get to the standard, and most importantly, implement the standard and get to the celebratory moment. Now while doing this, we are only saying the GHG Protocol is our recommendation. But we also are cognizant that if you are already using a standard, if you're already using a carbon management mechanism, we are happy to meet you where you are. So that we can actually do the implicit harmonization by starting from where you are, and bridging it to where you need to go rather than coming back and saying no, no, no, no, forget about all the things you are doing. Now, this is a good thing you have to follow. So the whole idea is to really be a certification body or world's premier certification body that has got a good grasp on the standards out there. And also market meet them based on what they are. So our goal is not to be prescriptive, but to emphasize the importance of every project being descriptive of their actions, so that we can meet them where they are, and help them certify their progress and communicate that they are aligning themselves towards that ultimate goal called zero emissions. So in short, a certification body.

Vincent Chiusano  26:49

Right. And through that process, I mean, taking into consideration, you know, like Mahesh alluded to, there's so many different facets of people getting into this into this movement, trying to get into it, trying to learn about it, you know, being able to cater towards people that are starting and beginning and offering the guidance, and the celebrations around that. Those that have started a certification process and are struggling and need extra help and need extra guidance as they go beyond the certification towards net zero. I mean, being able to cater to everybody, and an ultimate goal towards net zero was was pivotal and key to our overall vision, and being able to help everybody and just get people to implement things and do things in that direction and celebrate them along each path. Was Was Was the force behind all of it.

Jim Frazer  27:47

Yeah, one key differentiator for me is Mahesh I agree with you, the world has a multitude of standards for just about everything. And, and very often they come in conflict with each other. Okay. So harmonizing standards, is, is very important. Because, you know, if people if someone is on the road, you don't want to start from scratch, right? They're doing the right thing. Right. You know, it's important to to, you know, to use an engineering approach to harmonize what they're doing with, with, say, a more embraced best practice. So that's not not lost on me. So what are the challenges for the global network for zero in in adopting your vision,

Mahesh Ramanujam  28:35

I think the biggest challenge, there are many, but a few of them, we have to think about, first of all, we had to make the case for why every business has to prioritize this in terms of return on investment, right, because at the end of the day, that getting to net zero is not going to cost you is not going to happen free. And and it's going to take time, from project teams and from businesses. And last but not the least. And it's going to take focus, which sometimes you have to divert from other areas that you're already focusing on in your business, either building your clientele, trying to come back and build this. So we cannot underestimate the importance of communicating ROI, the return on investment, while we are communicating the return on impact conversation, right? We are always saying that thing is the right thing to do is a moral call to do Paris Climate Agreement and whatnot, you know, all these things are very important points that we make. But we have to understand that businesses are the first priority towards economic benefit, and we cannot lose sight of it. So that's one of the barriers. And it always becomes very challenging to make that case. Particularly when you're dealing with such a diverse set of ecosystem members. We perceive value in different ways. And sometimes that money doesn't exist, right? Some people are money that they would spend because they don't understand it. Some people understand it, but they don't have the money to spend. Some people understand it and they have the money but they still won't spend it. We will have to deal with at least at least so that's a very obvious barrier. The second barrier is that education, right education on not just educating on what isn't it zero what is called upon to score to score three? These are all technicalities, right? Most of the time, the consumer doesn't care. I've said it many, many times during green building days that don't educate the customer on a green building, just give them the green building, right? When I buy a TV, nobody tells me that how the diode and the and the and the basically the screens get energized, and how the electricity flows at all. They just give me a TV and I get to see what I want to use it right. I'm a user, I'm a consumer. So don't make it too hard on a consumer to consume better things. But however, the education that I'm talking about is that what does it mean for me, my family, my ecosystem? What is going to do to my mortality? But is it going to my generation? Is it something that is going to be consequential for me to really, to really change my lifestyle? Is it going to improve my quality of life, this is something that is not well internalized, sadly, if you see it, after COVID, I thought people will all be transformed, and they will be taking care of their health properly, and they will be doing things properly. But guess what, everybody has forgotten this COVID pandemic, unfortunately, right? Not enough people are thinking about our quality, not enough people are thinking about the things that you dreaded during COVID. Not enough thinking about it. That's very sad, right. So in this topic, where things are so many things are invisible, so many things are not directly felt, it is very, very easy to lose sight. So an education to continuously remind people that why this is important, and how it is going to affect you and your family. That is very, very important. That's the second barrier we have. And the third barrier we have is that right now, most of these people do it for greenwashing reasons, they want to get some kind of a brownie point that differentiation, marketing gimmick or some kind of an investor relation comments so that they can get some funds for a cheaper, better rate. Now, these things are all welcome. But unless a society does these things, because they are the right thing to do, and they want to do it the right way, these things will not last and sustain for a longer time, it cannot be a short term Act, or it cannot be a pretense, it has to be an act that has to be performed by integrating into your core business practices, core philosophies, so that it becomes not only something that you are doing, but you will continue to do and you will sustain the progress that you're making. Otherwise, it will be the the whole, you know, the law of diminishing returns will kick in. So I would say that these are my three big barriers. Now, so many other issues out there, not our policy, not enough money, those complaints has to cease. Because those all exist today. Those all exists. We all need our money for COVID cure, but we found the money in order to deal with lock down we found the money, right. But but but last but not least, we have to remind ourselves that all of this is going to affect an impact the most vulnerable amongst us. And we saw that firsthand during COVID. And so the bottom line is that three barriers and one reminder.

Jim Frazer  33:02

 In the past, I led the IEEE's Smart City Planning standard which was a basically a waterfall model to rating what you know, what are your most impactful projects and making sure that they do have an ROI. And one of the one of the biggest things I learned was that a smart city in in the developed world might be autonomous vehicles and multimodal transportation systems. And you know, you know personal lighting systems in an office building. But at the other end of the continuum, we had participants that came from lesser developed parts of the world where the simple installation of a solar powered streetlight allowed children to do their homework for a little bit later after the sunset. Yes. And in  that particular application, a few tablets and a internet dish was donated, and kids that live in a town in Africa with no electric distribution grid now can read things on the internet. So it really taught me that this is a much broader any of these types of situations are much broader than what we typically have in our own domain experience that we live day in and day out. So how how does the global network for zero? The the intent and your efforts, you know, translate across you know from Park Avenue in Manhattan to smaller communities,

Mahesh Ramanujam  35:02

I think the bottom line is very simple, right? You said it beautifully. The vision is global. Right? Internet is global digital is global. energy crisis is global climate change is global. COVID Curious, global, right. But but at the end of the day, the implementation is local. And the local implementations differ vastly between developed and developing worlds, if I may have to put it in wild terms. And of course, the economic prosperity plays a big role into it right sitting in the US, we can design a lot of things for ourselves, but sitting in Africa, or sitting in Peru, or sitting in Ecuador, even though you may wish all those things, you're not going to have the economic viability to be able to acquire those things, at least in the near term, right, if not, in the longer term is not in the near term. So this is the reality of life. This is the reality of globalization that we live in. All of us know what's going on around the world. But not everything can be within our reach. It's possible, right for particularly for the vulnerable people around the world. Now in that, because keeping this in mind, that is why although our vision of global network was zero is to keep this aspirational goal to zero emissions. We said we should meet people where they are, right, does that mean is that we have to focus on incremental approaches, we should tell them to focus on the big goal. But take incremental approaches, take localized approaches. But the most important emphasis on you is to get started, regardless of whether you're in Africa or whether you're in New York, whether you're on Fifth Avenue, you should get started. Even within United States, you know that California is more advanced on sustainability. But when you go to Midwest, you're not going to say the see the same level of progress and intensity there. That doesn't mean that the Midwest is not making the necessary advancements toward sustainability. But their pace, that expectation, their prioritization, and what goals that they want to pursue grossly differs, even within the United States. So naturally, when you get outside United States, you'd understand that you cannot enforce a template, somebody that mirrors California lifestyle, or a New York lifestyle, London lifestyle, or for that matter, a Chennai lifestyle, if I start putting the Chennai lifestyle amongst Europeans, obviously, that's going to fare very badly. So the bottom line is, keep it simple, from the perspective of really trying to come back and keep this in a very simplistic manner of keep the goals bold, aspirational, keep the implementation, incremental, and measure, as I always said, what gets measured gets done, what gets done gets replicated, what gets replicated, gets scaled. That's the bottom line. So that's I would say, that's our methodology. And hence we are very, very focused on incremental ism, big goal setting and most importantly, measurement outcomes. And do it day by day, million steps a day is better than 1 million steps by one or two people in the world. Right

Vincent Chiusano  37:50

now in our, you know, the my, for me, the most important word is implementation, right? Just getting people to implement things, wherever they are, whatever they're doing, you know, what their city mandates what industry they're in, what you know, what their climate challenges are, wherever they are. Everybody can implement something. So for me, you know, my passion is just get as many people to implement things and celebrate them just implementing and build upon that is is very key. Yeah, it reminds

Jim Frazer  38:21

me of we had a, an earlier guest on a  podcast episode. That was fascinating to us, because they were electrifying the gasoline powered Tuk Tuks, three wheeled vehicles in the Philippines. And while that sounds like an expensive proposition, the cost of fuel made the ROI actually attractive, particularly when you would charge your, your newly electrified vehicle with solar. So there are in you know, it doesn't necessarily need to be in Manhattan, or, or Santa Monica, that you do this. It could be in lesser developed parts of the world. So So gentlemen, what do you see for the future?

Mahesh Ramanujam  39:10

Any other thoughts?

Vincent Chiusano  39:13

I mean, you know, it's very, very interesting, because, you know, I'd like to see a little bit more consistency across the board, and more guidance on you know, offer it out there because I think a lot of people have great intentions. A lot of people want to do the right thing. A lot of people want to get started. They just need the guidance and the structure to balance a sustainability plan with whatever they do and what their p&l looks like and how it balances out, you know, what programs are available to them, what their cities where they live mandates what their industry does. Just a detailed focus, I think that we're going to narrow keep narrowing down the focus and make it more specific, down to what you can do based on who you are. You know, what your industry is where you live with more consistency and more focus and more guidance in not only, you know, putting the plan together, but the key is executing the plan more better understanding of your scope, scope, one, two, and then how to manage your scope three, how to invest your supply chains. So more and more detail, attention and focus and guidance on all of those areas to help people you know, keep chip I keep, I call it like chopping wood, like the Rutgers football coach, you know, everything, just keep chopping the wood. And you'll finally get through it, you know, little steps to keep educating and guiding people mash talk, a lot of education, that's huge. So that this doesn't become intimidating to people. And that they can see, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel and get the guidance to help them and minimize their insecurity. So I think we're gonna see a lot more of that. That's what we're trying to do what we're about to see a lot more of that happening. And, you know, and a lot more implementation, a lot more things moving forward, despite the challenges that are out there.

Mahesh Ramanujam  41:02

You know, Jim, you know, I am, I'm a perpetual optimist, right. And so the, I think the future is really converging towards us getting to a net zero future. Now, it may not look super clear from where we're standing today that we will get there. But I am optimistic and confident we'll get there. Why? Why because after COVID, we saw unprecedented announcements that were made towards Net Zero commitments by businesses. And I truly believe the progress that has been made to date is not very well communicated by most of the stakeholders, right, because of the reasons that we spoke about earlier, the standards that don't talk to each other, the outcomes that are not very clearly agreed upon by parties. And most importantly, the implementation strategies itself is so different. So that's, that's, that's the root cause. Now, we can be a little bit more optimistic about it. Because if you really look at this from the angle of reporting, the financial reporting of different companies is already happening around the world. And, and some companies are poor, some companies are rich, some companies are way ahead of their peers, but all of them are making progress, all businesses are evolving. And then if you take the last 10 to 15 years, the economic prosperity of the world definitely are shifted towards a positive direction. So if you had to follow the same thought process, the individual accounting that is now coming into the system, from different people related to sustainability activities related to net zero, related to the activities related to Circular Economy, ESG, and whatnot, is all trying to get relevant aligned. And that outcome and the reporting that either the regulation or the voluntary disclosures are forcing people to do is getting to a converging and a tipping point. And they'll get more refined in the next few few years. When that happens, we will have clarity. And we will not be sitting there at that point of time and saying that, Oh boy, we are not arrive, we will say that OBI, we arrived already, or we arrived more than we thought we were. But dumb as we were we didn't do a good job of measuring it and communicating it. I'm really hopeful about that. Now, while saying that I don't want to take the foot off the gas, I think that comfort zone can only happen. If you set your goal. Clearly, to go to net zero. Second, you have to make a commitment to analyze your emissions baseline. Third, you need to have a plan. And you need to understand that that means zero plan cannot be independent of your business plan on your strategy. And for those that don't be bold, don't be shy. Don't be intimidated by all these big tasks that are out there. But start taking incremental steps so that you can have your milestones that will align with your annual business reviews on your business performance. And then get there. Because you're going to get there on revenue, you're going to get there on profit, you're going to get there on growth. Now you get there on zero. Also, it's not that hard to get there. Once you set up all businesses always arise. And last but not least, once you get to that economic prosperity in your business, you're not going to ask her next year to go below the targets that you set. So go at all. So why stop at zero go too fast. I see a world that's going to get there. And I think we are going to do our part along with you and many other leaders are there to make it happen. Because that's our sole responsibility that we transfer this wonderful planet in its best shape for future generations. Because we borrowed it from somebody, it's time to give it in great shape, so that they can use it and prosper. Oh, my

Jim Frazer  44:43

pleasure. And Vinny, you got ahead of me because my next question was, you know, who are your stakeholders? I was thinking building owners building developers REITs folks like that. Who are your stakeholders and What exact concrete recommendations can you make to them?

Mahesh Ramanujam  45:04

I think I already touched on it, we need to utilize you did? Yes.

Vincent Chiusano  45:09

Everybody, right. And and, you know, we what we what we can offer is this doesn't have to be overwhelming, right? This doesn't have to, you don't have to get swallowed up by it. You know that there are there are, you know, we and others out there, there are people that can help help you get the plan together, celebrate your plan, help you execute your plan, and take it methodically and slow the pace based on what your business is what Punjab available, what government programs you qualify for, this can get very, very overwhelming very fast. But it doesn't have to be. And you know, there, there are a lot of people out there that can help you get started or build upon where you are and do things. So I mean, I would say from a customer's perspective, we're, we're here for everybody. We're here for the homeowner, we're here for the business person, you know, just everybody that's out there that wants to start the journey, and wants the guidance to go along with it. We're here for you.

Jim Frazer  46:13

Okay, well, before we close today, do either view on final thoughts or messages you'd like to leave with our audience when

Mahesh Ramanujam  46:20

it go for it. Now,

Vincent Chiusano  46:22

I'm just so just so happy, Jim, that you had us on here. We're so excited to help everybody that's out there, really, we just want to I mean, I keep going back to an implementation, we just want everybody to implement something, even the smallest things, you know, propel us forward. So, you know, whether it's us or anybody out there, there are people that can help you implement. And let's get this thing, let's get to net zero. Let's do it.

Jim Frazer  46:49

Before we go, you know, video, mahesh how does an interested person get in touch with the global network for zero?

Mahesh Ramanujam  47:00

I will give them 20. But before that, if you don't mind, I'll just add one point for for you know, I feel extremely, extremely fortunate to get a second life within my first life in a post COVID ball. If I was committed to in the in the pre COVID wall, I was very committed to paying forward because my father paid forward for me by giving up a savings by giving up as come forward to make me the person I am. So in a post COVID wall, whatever I tried to do in my first life, I want to do it even better in my second life. So I'm hoping that every single person out there would hope and would do the right thing. But do it in a much smarter accelerated way. Because we have so many tools, so many opportunities, and so many creative people around us. So let's not be selfish. Let's not just internally focus on ourselves, let's look out the people who will We will never meet in our lifetime. But make a commitment today to make progress for them. Not just for your immediate family members, but make progress for the people who you'd never meet in your life. And climate change. tackling climate change gives you that opportunity that doing that part. And doing that that improvement in your corner of the world can actually translate something meaningful to somebody else. So I want to leave that as my as my last talk for this particular wonderful podcast, you know, so

Jim Frazer  48:26

I can't think of a better way to end on that an uplifting message. But I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to share some either social media links, email, or how could an interested person in the industry contact you. They

Vincent Chiusano  48:42

can contact me directly. That is Vincent Vincent at GE N dash zero.com contact me directly. I talk to people in sustainability world all day, all the time. We'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear about your challenges. Love to talk about talk about options with you and how we and others can help you succeed. So yes, contact me directly. I'd love to hear from you. Well,

Jim Frazer  49:09

thank you, Vincent Zano and Mahesh Ramadan drum of global network for zero. Thank you again for sharing your insights, your stories. Thanks to everyone who's tuning in. Every small change made does make a big difference in the world with sustainability. And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and we look forward to seeing you on an upcoming episode. Thank you to everybody.

Vincent Chiusano  49:36

Thank you so much, Jim.

Jim Frazer  49:38

Thank you.